Saturday, 25 October 2008

Educated Fools


Had this conversation with a friend over dinner recently and since then its been playing back and forth in my mind. She says she will only marry a person with a MA or a Phd to match her (yet not completed) MBA. Bear in mind she isn't the cleverest pea in the pod. She is educated and on her way to achieve a higher education yet she isn't what you call an educated person. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say I'm not bashing her but I'm giving you a peak into her academic level. She believes that only a person with certain degrees would be an acceptable suitor whereas I beg to differ. According to her she will even refuse any suitor with just a Bachelors degree!

I have come across MANY educated people with the highest levels of degrees yet they are as intelligent as my foot! As well many 'non-degree holders' who have more knowledge and insight in all aspects of life than those with degrees. There are many around the country and world-wide who do not have degrees yet have prominent positions within their work and society. A degree does not make one an intellectual; true the process of achieving a degree may it be a BA, MA, or a PhD is a fountain of knowledge that is available to you yet only a minority who will absorb that knowledge. A non degree holder does not mean that the person is a failure, barbarian, or a caveman/cavewoman. A degree does not dictate how that person functions in their life and it guarantees that they will make the perfect spouse.

I believe that we live in a society that requires one to achieve a degree whether its a BA or PhD. It has become an essential part of our lives yet seeing many degree holders lack the knowledge that they should have acquired therefore making education seem of a less importance to base ones future spouse on. If there is compatibility on other levels then education becomes a minute issue. Lets assume a couple get married where both are degree holders; does that guarantee them a successful marriage?

So the question(s) is if a person does not have a degree does that make him/her not marriage material for a degree holding person? Should degree holders only marry degree holders (even though they lack the intellectualism that their degree should have bestowed upon them)? Since when do we judge human beings based on their educational status??

39 comments:

The Stig said...

;)

Anonymous said...

hmm ..

ĐǻñĎõøðñ said...

i agree enna there should be some kind of educational compatibility btwn a couple, bs its a minor criteria ya3ny. i find that intellectual compatibility is one of the major criteria though...

ZaMaHReeR said...

I think what your friend has said is such a nonsense, ilsiomo7a ya3ni. but ppl are not judges based on their degrees, u gave good explanations there, and i agree with what have u said there. and i certainly agree with what dandoon has said, intellectual compatibility (which is a requerment in a successful marriage) is different than the educational compatibility (which is important in certain level but is not a necessity)
i hope that i cleared my point here :P

Âme said...

Real education helps people to think with clarity and understanding.

It uses the power of knowledge to gain wisdom.

Your friend ofcourse is not educated enough to think so.

Regarding marriage, it may be a taboo in your friend's community that the groom should be more educated than the bride.

I have seen this in many communities. Yet, I could not come to know practical reasons why it should be so. Is it the gratification of the male ego ?

Probably, your friend is a victim of such a taboo.

---

Education is also a factor to be considered during marriage, but is not a major factor for successful marriage.

The society conscious ones have high probability of falling prey for such an ideology of marrying highly educated person.

As of me, i would consider an understanding, with good morals, and a woman who thinks clearly a better choice to be a wife than an educated fool.

--

Its another story that education has become a material object to be possessed in varied quantities. The more the quantity the better it is, is the general notion.

Education is something, if not used will be like a rusted knife. Its of no use.

Same is with our brains.

Cheers..

~ Soul

Hasan.B said...

I will miss you the most fourme and you already forgot me!:(

FourMe said...

Stig:
seriously what's up with the face?
==

Anony:
would love to hear your views on the matter..
==

Doona:
Lets go wild with this one! Lets assume there is compatibility on the fundamentals eg religious views, social backgrounds, understanding yet there is no educational or intellectual compatibility in other words your brains don't click. But on paper he is an ideal spouse, would you accept him as the future Mr. dandooon?
==

Zamahreer:
Trust me I know! I adore her yet sometimes I wanna rip her brain out and give it a good beating but each is entitled to their ideologies.
These days people are judged on their degrees! Automatic assumption is if you're not a degree holder you must be a moron!

"is different than the educational compatibility (which is important in certain level but is not a necessity)" elaborate please, when is it a necessity?
==

Ame~soul:
You're hitting the nerve there. Is it acceptable for a male to have a higher degree than the female and not acceptable vice versa? Is the fear of a woman being intellectually dominating is what caused this 'both must have degrees'? Or is it the fear of undermining the woman's mind and assuming one day throughout the marriage she will say 'you're not worthy'?

I might be drifting off here but does it all fall back to must having the male as the dominating gender that brings home 'the bread'?
==

The Forgotten ONE:
Because in my book people don't leave without GOODBYES!!!




You were my favourite out of the boys :( *one tear*

Good Bye..

p.s. is this your way of asking for another poster??

Zabo0o6a said...

Well some might have the higest level of education , but have the lowest degree of experience in life ..

S E 7 E N said...

FourMe .... i think ur friend wayed shayfa 7alhaaa and thinking that the shahda will make the guy

i have 2 uncles 1) EX MAJOR in the army qa6am i9tighalta early 80's oo 2) shahada mitwa96a .... trust me i'd give up all my education every degree i ever achieved in life just to be, reach and achieve wat they did ....

so NO ... the shahada / no shahada

mala shoghil if a person marriage material or not ....

falantan said...

there are degrees for bread-winning, and there are degrees for prestige.

I believe the former is the minimum, while the latter, I couldn't care less. other more important concerns for me are wesaa3at essader wil'a5laaq, o atleast esalli.

falantan said...

ok, forgot to add the 3rd type, degrees for those obsessed with research and academia, hats off to these people, but be forewarned he WILL be less available and more into his books. like my brother for example, he doesn't even WANT to get married. refuses the idea completely. 7emdella wesheker. plus those are ultra rare anyway.

:::ShoSho::: said...

I totally agree with you.. People care about the degree, the school, and the uni.. and I think otherwise..

For example, I am a public school graduate and I always tell people that I don't think I am any low than those who are private educated.. O ba3dain an educated person who is confident of his/her education doesn't BRAG about it... Some people have a PHD and know nothing about many things whereas someone who might have just finished high schools knows a lot because he/she reads alot, you know... information/education is unlimited and everyone has access to it .. but some people are only limited to what they are studying so it doesn't mean they know better just because of a certificate that says PHD..

Bottom line, if you are educated, you would know how to talk in a respected way with/about others..

:::ShoSho::: said...

Oi hasan what is wrong?!!!!

Traveleer said...

I totally agree with you. I hate it hate it hate it when people look down on others with only ahigh school diploma or just a vocational degree.

You have said it all in your post

Ms. D said...

weeeeeeenich:@

Squirreliya said...

somehow i agree with you

shoosha said...

wayed mo3aqad this post 7aggy

desertpalms said...

dyu know what..me and my parents were having a discussion about this the other day...my mum was saying to me 'ohh now youre in medskl ur gonna want to find someone whos got a degree even higher than yourss' ow youre gonna be picky ow madri shino...and i was thinking erm mama leish? why does it matter what his degree is...=S

and thankfully my dad agreed..and he used my mum as an example..cuz he has a very high degree whereas she just has a bachelors but he still married her..he didnt think ohh she must have equal education to me...so anyways he was like why does degree matter so much, its just a piece of paper..actual intelligence (not booksmart people ya3ni) and wisdom cant be taught at any school..the only thing that matters is if he is a good person, religious and hes got a kind heart...compatibility isnt ruled by whether someone has a PhD or a BSc or whatever..thats so stupid!

i think it is do with the backward thought that the man must be better or have a higher status than the woman..so im thinking my mum and ur friend still hold that traditional point of view...which is sad really =/

Âme said...

FourMe,
I don't think the acceptability of a male or female having a higher degree is much of a debatable subject.

Cutting the way short to the conclusion .. "it doesn't matter".

But you should know that practicality is not determined by the conclusions of a debate.

When thinking of a subject related to large masses, such specificity would not be suffice, just by a conclusion of a debate.

Remember the 80-20 rule, to change the 80, we need to change that 20.

So, our conclusion of .. "it doesn't matter whether the man/woman has higher degree".. should be made understood among those who actually control such huge masses.

I mean group leaders, tribal leaders, community leaders, religious leaders and ofcourse not the least, political leaders.

The idea of your post, rather than just to express your anguish and disagreement, should probably aim in educating those who really count to change the masses.

However, I could not expect it to be on a large scale here on a blog, but you know what, everything starts with one small step.

Kudos..

I have always been proud of what you write.

~ Soul

Âme said...

To answer your below questions..
----
Is the fear of a woman being intellectually dominating is what caused this 'both must have degrees'? Or is it the fear of undermining the woman's mind and assuming one day throughout the marriage she will say 'you're not worthy'?

I might be drifting off here but does it all fall back to must having the male as the dominating gender that brings home 'the bread'?

---

FourMe,

I would like to remind you of the law of nature, the survival of the fittest.

There is always an urge to be stronger, better and superior.
This manifests in both genders.

Woman being physically weak, still at the crude natural level, is weaker than man.

Her roles from ages were defined to be weaker and also in accordance to her gender characteristics.

Now, roles have changed.
A lot of woman are independent. Their roles are not much different from man.

However, they are EXPECTED to be MOSTLY like their ancestors, even if they display MINOR characteristics of men.

And this causes a lot of trouble for the women.
Ultimately, they revolt.

If men understood that roles have changed, it would be a much easier task for women to get over this transition phase of role shifting.

I guess laws need to be amended, as did they in West.

However, it would take time in communities like us, Islamic ones, to implement such laws.

Most of us, don't question what we assume, like what our parents taught us in our childhoods and what we took for granted.

Not all can question, but one can try.

The bottom line again rolls down to educating about the change in roles and coping with such a change.

~ Soul

ĐǻñĎõøðñ said...

ofcorse not!
if mr. dandooon wont be clicking with my brain, he'll be clickin with wat bethabt?!
and by that, i dont mean enna he has to have all the knowledge i have or vice versa, bs a7eb enna we know whats going on. im probably not making sense at all.

ya3ny mathalan, if we're buying a house, egooly hatha a7san mn thak 3shan X, Y and Z oo hathak a7san 3shan A, B and C, mo wallah hatha aksha5 wla more expensive or ashya2 tafha chithee...

am i making sense?

SE7EN said...

dump ppl marry dump ppl

smart marry smart

circle of life

Soul said...

I don't mind marrying a qa99ab, as long as he's smart, kind, 5alooq, loves me.. o feeh ensejam baina..

p.s If any qa99ab reads this tara i'm taken! don't even try! LOOOL

FourMe said...

zabo0o6a:
Very true..
==

se7en:
true that's what I was trying to get her to understand that the degree doesn't make a man a "Man" its just a piece of a paper..
==

falantan:
The notion of having multiple degrees makes one a step higher on the social pedestal is quite a sickening one.. I couldn't agree more these are the foundations of any spouse..

People like your brother are of a dying breed unfortunately..maybe he has his reasons other than academia..
==

shosho:
very true knowledge is unlimited and it is out there and can be obtained without the piece of paper that and those couple of letters on it..

hasan is being all annoying again and decided to quit without goodbyes!!
==

traveleer:
join the club.. I couldn't hate it more..
==

ms d:
am hereee whats up?!!
==

Sq:
I sense there is a but somewhere in your comment?

FourMe said...

shoosha:
heheh write me 5000 words on the topic and I'll buy you a pony :p

5,000 = Pony
15,000 = horse
==

DP:
What was your mums say after your dad made his point? You are ;lucky to have an understanding parent like that! Most old school believe that the male should have the higher degree..

and it is a shame that such mentalities exist! They call for equality yet they don't know what it is in the first place!!
==

ame~soul:
The topic is the product of two important issues that most societies across the region suffer from; gender dominance and educational status, educational discrimination is just as bad as gender discrimination. Yet it is not recognised.

True the matter should be discussed with a larger scaled audience yet my 52 are all that I can preach to at the time being.

Very much appreciated, thank you :)

Is the gender issue going to haunt us till the end of time? The world is advancing at an excelled pace yet they still lack the simplest things in life! The West is as guilty of this as us, they might have implemented laws before us yet they are still guilty of of the act. It seems pointless to try and educate a minority about gender equality while the majority denies a woman from her simplest rights!
==

dooona:
yes dear you make sense I'm simply questioning those that marry for the sake of marriage without any compatibility..
==

se7en:
hahhahahaha you solved it all didn't you :p
==

souloOoO:
hehehhehehehehheh now I have nothing against butchers but I simply fear the blood and the knife :/

Big Pearls said...

They should be compatible bas 3adi if one has a better degree.

Squirreliya said...

yuma shdarach @@

...but i won't take wa7id shahdta aqal men shahadty

Âme said...

Its always that minority which counts FourMe.

Trust me.

~ Soul

Oranjina fadidra said...

mawthoo3 sha2eek jidan

Delicately Realistic said...

I believe that its best that they r on the same educational level, but its not a rule or a must...

ive seen dozens of successful marriages which r the exact opposite

but when it comes to me....i would prefer he had a university education at least!!!!!!!

recently i got a few proposals from men holding Phd's, MBA's or in the process of completing either...when i turned them down the ppl involved in the whole match making process were horrified

y3ni dr bil jam3a...khair ya 6air.. nazil min il sima !?!?

Glitter said...

aklamich sa7,
o 3ain il 3agel,
.
.
never-the-less,
3al aqal ykoon jami3y!

PaLoMiNo said...

Golay 7ag ur friend welcome to the 3noosa Life ;p

shoosha said...

DONT UNDERESTIMATE ME FM!!! DONT!!

or u know what'll happen ;p

ZaMaHReeR said...

what i meant to say is that the educational compatibility is important to a certain level, lets say both must finished their undergraduate studies, 3ashan yfhmon ba3a'9!!
i cant explain more, im bad in this part :P

FourMe said...

big pearls:
I agree..
==

Sq:
hehe I can tell..
==

ame~soul:
For the minority to change the majorities mentality it will demand patience, understanding, and persistence that many lack these days.
==

Oran Fad:
jidan jidan..
==

DR:
they assume just because he has the degree it makes him the ultimate catch!
==

Glitter:
Ok if he's not college educated bs he owns his own succeful company that he built from scratch. Does that make him a good candidate?
==

palomino:
7adhaaa...
==

shoosha:
I swear on my Choos I'll beat the living daylights out of you if you don't behave.. yozaaay gamooosh!
==

zamahreer:
I beg to differ..

K.D said...

i hope i'm not too late on this one! :D

well.. ummm.. you know i talk alot.. and you asked.. so..

i would say i'm educated!
i didn't do my masters yet.. but i'm half way through.. even though i have coupla post graduate certificates in different fields.. that are equivalent to 2 master degrees.. i've checked!
i'm just saying this to let ya have an idea bout what category you might wanna put me in!

so... i do want an educated woman.. and i got one!.. my fiancee got her masters few weeks back! can't be more proud!

but is it a must?!
of course not!
degrees are not the standard here!!
they will never be a standard to a thing!
they used to be!
when they were a privilege.. when it was optional to have them!
when you must care enough to get them.. or smart enough to be forced to take them!!
but now.. i don't think so.. with "take-away" degrees out there!.. i don't think so my dear friend!
i can get ya a phd tomorrow if ya want!

the standard is.. knowing each other by talkin to each other.. gettin close.. and see how big the gap between ya is!
coz there WILL be a gap.. how big can you do!
what your rock bottom really is?!
that's up to you!


with all do respect to your "educated" friend..
she's one of those "take-away" degrees people!
judging people by tags!.. IS CAVE ORINTED!!!.. may i add soooo cave orinted!!!
if ya buy by the tag!.. then shop somewhere else sweety!! :p
where other people with tags hang out!
oh they are soooo proud of their tags.. i'm telling ya! :D

"oooooh that has a harvard tag on him.. me likey.. me likey.. can i keep him... i promise i'll feed him" *puppy face*

that sums up your friend!.. and her kind of "educated" people.. ummm.. "open-minded" people!!.. "barbarian haters" people.. ok you got the picture! :p

with alllll do respect! :)

eshda3wa said...

if im getting married i want my spouse to be educated.
khreej jam3a

that doesn't mean ena i belittle ppl with no degree or think them fools

but its an important factor non the less

as for ur firend
i would never think like that
lazim master or phd... laish ur gna sit and compare theories wela shino?

Âme said...

FourMe,

They ARE called 'the minority' because they possess such qualities.

That is where I have classified them.

If it is otherwise, they would just fall under the nodding head majority.

~ Soul

A Journal Entry said...

holding a degree is not an idecator at all.. i mean i once knew a girl that graduated with emtiyaz ma3a martabat il sharaf il accounting.. oo she knows almost zero about it!

ya3ni ta5ayilay tis2alny how did il raqam hatha ya oo it's like one of the basic thing in accounting!!

fa killish mooo miqyas..